Horse Problem - Mouthy/Nippy horse - How do you deal with playful, nipping, mouthy behavior?
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QUESTION: Hi Sylvia. First, I want to let you know that your DVDs helped me take my extremely unconfident, untrusting young Missouri Fox Trotter with a severe "eye changing" problem (first time I'd heard of this was on your DVDs) to his current state of confidence, trust and relaxation under most circumstances. Before learning NH techniques, I never believed I'd be able to ride him outside an arena (and without a big knot in my stomach). We've just now started riding out on trail, and he is relaxed enough to gait without a bit which I was told by the "experts" probably would never happen (he couldn't even gait with one a few months ago). It is not that issues still don't pop up, but now I can "read" my horse's behavior better and can deal with most issues that arise. Right now that often involves getting out of the saddle and working through something safely on the ground.
My question is this:
Now that my horse has gained confidence, some new behaviors seem to have replaced the old "spooky" ones. First, a few months ago he started to become very mouthy - likes to put his mouth on everything including objects, any new tack, his lead rope, me. This just involves his lips and seems like he is just sort of "exploring." It is not done with aggression at all. At first, I didn't want to correct this behavior because I saw it as a natural progression from fear to curiosity and I welcomed it, but I'm wondering if it is a good idea to correct it and how to go about it, especially when he puts his mouth on me, and especially considering the even newer behavior I've described below.
More recently, he has started occasional playful nipping behavior, different from the "exploration" behavior described above. He wasn't gelded until age
4 1/2. He came from a show barn in Missouri, so he may have been intended for stud (he is a gorgeous tri-color tobiano and, I found out after I bought him, he also has a great pedigree), but probably decided against due to his initially spooky temperament. He is in a large pasture with 12 other horses currently, six are mares.
Last month, due to extreme weather (for our part of California that is!), almost all the pasture horses were brought down and put in stalls for a couple nights, but my horse is very hardy and was left up in pasture with about five other horses. After the stalled horses returned to pasture, I noticed that my horse's place in the herd had elevated; i.e., I started observing that the #2 gelding was unable to push him off his food or away from the water trough, and he often was hanging out with the alpha mare.
Almost concurrent with this observation, he began this occasional nipping behavior with me when I'm grooming or leading him - it seems more playful than aggressive, and typically, his sheath may be dropped and there may also be a mare in season in pasture. I read your Q&A on your web site re: the biting stud colt, and wonder if, even though my horse has been gelded for two years, this could be some residual "stallion-esqe" behaviors. Regardless, I welcome your advice on correcting this behavior - you indicate that a dominant mare might push him out of the herd, and I'm wondering if, when he is on a lead, it is appropriate to back him away quickly when he nips, and when grooming if I should just leave him tied and go out of sight for a few minutes when he does this. Thanks in advance for your advice.
REPLY: Your gut instincts are correct here in that you need to halt this, and assertively, and immediately. It's escalated probably because: give an inch, he's taking a mile, as the saying goes. We never tolerate a horse's mouth on us like that at any time. Yes, back him up quickly, like you've read re biting horses in my web site Q&A section. No, to what you said there about you going out of sight suddenly when he's tied and does it. See, dominance in horses/pecking order behavior (which biting/nipping is) is established via this rule (in their minds): He/or she who moves the other's feet is higher up on the pecking order and therefore the leader. So, if he nips you or even mouths you when he's tied and you suddenly exit out of sight, who was the higher pecking order winner there? He was! He moved your feet (again, in his mind). And you just accidentally reinforced biting and him as higher pecking order over you. Oops.
Do this instead: Pretend to tie him (just drape the rope somehow so it looks to him like he's tied) and then set him up openly to do this (giving you the opportunity to school him on the unacceptable behavior). Go ahead and put the back of your hand near his mouth (or whatever you feel safely works for you there, to set him up to think about doing this, so he'll start hitting a "wall" with that behavior - maybe wear gloves if needed). But be ready, nano-second ready, to react. The second he does it, grab the rope (which wasn't really tied!) snap it downward repeatedly as you walk into him and move him backwards fast, many steps, and use a very loud "shhhhh" sound at the same time. And follow exactly what you read in my "biting" section of my Q&A on my web site.
After backing him up like that, then just remain on your end of the lead rope and stare at him silently, full eye-to-eye contact. Staring is a dominant pressure. When you see signs of understanding (working the mouth, lowering the head, etc.), just go soft in your body, turn your back, remove your eyes off of him, lead him back to the same place and pretend to tie him again, but act like nothing happened there at all, don't hold a grudge. Be very calm. Immediately set him up to do it again if he's so inclined. He probably won't go there again, but if he does, be consistent with your response. Repeat what you just did there.
Biting behavior, to me, is probably one of the most seriously dangerous things horses can do to humans. And it rarely just comes "out of the blue." It almost always has been slowly, inch by inch, creeping in that direction (and you described that creep perfectly there), but people were missing the earlier opportunity to recognize the beginning form of that behavior and correcting it earlier on to nip it in the bud. But don't worry, doesn't matter, just deal with it now.
And no, you're not going to scare him in a way that is going to undo your fine work so far, don't worry. You're just still setting the boundaries and afterwards he's going to respect you (and like you!) even MORE, not less. Horses can't stand others (especially people) they can push around. They relax more around humans especially that they know clearly are leaders and not to be pushed around.
Biting/nipping/nudging, etc., behavior in horses is their attempt to push humans around (or to just "test" to see if they can) to see where they stand on the pecking order. And this is perfectly natural. If they are going to rely on someone as their leader, they sure want to know up front if the person has those leadership abilities!
But never let that "biting/nipping test" succeed. Don't hit them, don't yell at them, just move their feet quickly backwards with the snapping downward repeatedly of the lead rope, as you walk into them, and with a loud "Shhhhhh" sound accompanying that, and they get the message quickly, rest assured, because it is body language they do understand: you moved their feet as higher pecking order over them. He'll get it, you'll see, but be real consistent every single time he does it, from now on. Not just sometimes, but all the time, because he's kind of been getting away with it for too long, so he's probably going to try again off and on for a while. But with consistency on your part, he'll let go of it completely regarding that being acceptable to humans.
All that said, I still want to direct you to a particular link on my web site regarding mouthy horses in general, because sometimes there is a dental problem going on:
By the way, it's very common (as you're noticing there) that as you train your horse in my program, for them to start climbing the pecking order out in a herd. I see this all the time. And it's about: the horse is growing confident inside himself, replacing his formerly fearful, insecure (often "broken") self. My program, and good natural horsemanship techniques in general, works to fix the inside of the horse, and the outside follows. And that translates outwardly to his herd relationships as well. They feel better about themselves, more confident, more secure, and that's a good thing, not a bad thing.
You're doing great work there. Keep it up! Proud of you!!
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