Horse Problem - Bucking Problem - Horse bucks rider off during mounting
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QUESTION: Dear Sylvia, My friend who is a novice to horses purchased a 12-year-old quarter/Morgan cross, who appeared to be, and was sold as, a good beginner horse. He has very good ground manners. When we went to look at the horse, my friend tacked him up, then I held him for her to get on, and he was quiet. Then I got on another horse and we went on a thorough trail ride with many different obstacles, water, steep hills, ditches, woods, walk trot cantered--he seemed to be everything she was looking for in a horse for a novice rider. We were told he was "used as a lesson horse" but this was coming from someone who buys and sells horses for profit (mistake number 1).
We both rode him in the arena when we got back from the trail ride. I had her hold him for me as my arthritic hip was very painful and I was slow and awkward that day and didn't want to take a chance with a new horse even though he was very good on the trails. He was respectful, responsive and "safe" feeling while I was riding him. I have ridden, owned, cared-for, trained, shown dressage and eventing for over forty years, so I felt reasonably confident of my assessment. My friend bought him on the spot (mistake 2) and had him trailered to my small farm the next week. He was very relaxed and assimilated with my other horses almost immediately.
He appeared somewhat shy of people when approached in his stall; my sense was that he did not automatically trust people and acted on the side of caution. This lessened quite a bit after several days of quiet respectful treatment. After about a week of hanging out and adjusting, my friend tacked him up. The saddle appeared to fit him fine. Led him up to the mounting block by the fence in the arena and put one foot in the stirrup. As soon as her other foot left the platform, he ducked and bucked two or three times and she fell. After seeing to my friend, we caught the horse; he was evasive for a while, then we longed him and put him away.
I gave him the benefit of the doubt, checked his back, his tack, etc. We were both very busy for a couple of weeks with work. I rode my horses when I had time and she brushed and "bonded" with her new horse. He was quiet and well behaved all this time, but I always felt like he was "watching" us. He seemed to me to be one of those horses who may be obedient and well trained, but never really gets close to people. Finally, I said I would ride her horse today. Sixty-five degrees, no wind, he had been turned out for seven hours.
I tacked up, used a different saddle, which also fit very well, did about forty minutes of ground work, all no problem, then the exact same thing happened! As soon as my second foot cleared the platform (no hip pain today, moving well), but before I could get seated in the saddle—when I had the least amount of control and was the most vulnerable—he ducked, jerking the reins loose, then made three deliberate bucks and dumped me, then trotted off and started munching hay.
I approached him quietly, caught him, put the longe line on him and calmly longed him at a slow jog trot and walk for almost two hours. No one was home to hold him for me or I would have spent that time getting on and off, and riding.
I am almost positive this is not a back pain issue. The guileless 11-year-old daughter of the woman who sold us this horse said she had been riding him for a couple months; he has no pain reactions in his back that I can discern. The way he did not fuss at all while being tacked up, stood resting one leg while in crossties for several minutes while I prepared to ride, all speak of him being a relaxed, confident comfortable horse. He moved a little at the mounting block, but not anything unusual. But, it is the way that both times he made his move at the precise moment when it would be the easiest to dump a rider, as well as his emotional aloofness that makes me think this is a behavioral issue. My instincts tell me this.
I’ve had horses buck when going into the canter, and/or just a hop now and then when they are feeling good—especially the thoroughbreds I have had, but never this apparently calculated move to avoid being ridden. I would really appreciate what you could tell us about dealing with horses who deliberately buck as a behavioral issue and not a medical/physical pain issue.
I am going to recommend to my friend that she get him checked by a vet just to be sure, and if there are no problems there, then I think she should sell him. I, by the way, have been fortunate to be able to keep my horses for life and have never sold a horse, but have owned seven and leased two, so I am not making a recommendation to sell lightly. I do not think I will trust this horse again—I am 53 and am not going to fool around trying to retrain a horse who has one very dangerous bad behavior, and my friend does not have the expertise, even though she is armed with the Clinton Anderson “Lounging For Respect” DVD. I only heard of you tonight from an online chat, or I would have recommended she wait and check out your work. Thank you for your time and knowledge.
REPLY: Thanks for writing. It's really hard for me to tell from this distance, with a problem like this, what exactly the issue is, but it does sound like maybe this is a "learned behavior," but I also always want to rule out pain/discomfort issues first, as well. I've seen so many horses make remarkable turnarounds, amazingly, with the EquiPedic Saddle Pad, in particular, which is why it is the only pad I will ever use on any horse, and is why I carry it now in my web site store. So often behavioral issues are actually pain issues that have gone undetected. The fact that y'all rode him okay at the sellers, with no apparent issues, and now he's bucking when mounting, leads me to believe that possibly this is a pain/present tack fit issue. Maybe. I would want to totally rule out the physical aspect thoroughly before assuming it's strictly behavioral.
But this horse also may have a habit now, because it's working for him.
When you mount a horse properly, the way I teach, there's less ability for the horse to buck there. Let me direct you to a couple of links on my site that might help y'all out there. First...for proper (safer) mounting procedures, read this:
And I would also advise using a 2-people approach to work him past this, which I go over here -- it's safer and it baby steps the horse there better, allowing for more advance/retreat, and a release for right answer increments:
What would I myself do if called in there? As I do with all horses, I would start at the very bottom of their foundation first, retraining like I do all horses, because this affords me the opportunity to find the foundation holes that may be previously hidden from the owner (issues like eye changing problems -- which is a very strong possibility there! -- etc., will get flushed out & fixed in my program). I would start with round penning the horse at liberty, which I teach here: Effective Round Penning Techniques -- and in my Round Pen Leadership DVD
After that, I would plug him into my Whispering Way 12-Step Total Training System. My program flushes out all foundation holes and fixes them (safely on the ground first!), before ever riding them. That horse there definitely has foundation holes, my guess. What they are, I don't know for sure until I plug them into my program, then they are very apparent usually.
Nearly all problems in saddle can be traced to holes in the horse's basic ground foundation training, I feel (if they are not pain/discomfort related). And that's probably the case there, as well. I'm not a big proponent of just longing a horse, by the way. It's usually not that productive, in the end, and doesn't sufficiently close up foundation holes properly. There are far more effective natural horsemanship exercises one can be doing on the ground that will then translate upward positively into saddle. And that's what my program is all about. And I always back up in email coaching if anyone ever needs that as they get going in my program, after watching the DVD's. My program is designed for even beginners, by the way, so you might pass that along to your friend.
But there is also nothing wrong with selling a horse that is not working out, for whatever reason, I feel. Horses are supposed to be in the category of our recreation, not a constant source of stress or danger to us. So....those are things to think about. Do I think he can be retrained? Sure, most all horses can usually. With the right methods. It's just a matter of how much the owner wants to put into it really. So...maybe pass my email along to your friend so she can work out what decision will work best for her. She's lucky to have a caring friend like you, by the way! :-)
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